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Post Info TOPIC: Ghosts and what do they mean?


Honoured Mook

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Ghosts and what do they mean?


I was wondering if any mooks believe in ghosts, and what evidence they have seen of them.

I have heard and felt things that I can't explain. Examples including: people calling my name when alone in the house, feeling a hand grab the back of my leg and a bottle smashing on the floor at 3am with glass being left in a place where it couldn't physically be. I have also woken up from a dream with the covers off (when I sleep like a sausage roll) and my leg raised in the air and the feeling of someone's hand around my ankle lifting my leg up. I'd like to add that I don't sleepwalk or remove the covers when asleep.

I would also like to know what you think these ghosts are and why are they here (if you believe). I'm an atheist so in my mind they have nothing to do with religion but I'm interested to hear what your views are.



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Mookish Deity Most High

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I don't know if I believe in ghosts or not. I've had plenty of experiences that have convinced me for a while but after a while I go back to not really believing (but I also don't not believe? Kind of like an agnostic but with ghosts...). South african culture tends to be pretty superstitious (sleeping on the floor scares me still because of a common superstition I haven't heard in a long time!), I guess being around that has half convinced me and half made me kinda sceptical.
I've had lots of experiences of hearing things that didn't make sense - when I was younger I lived in the middle of nowhere, a tiny little fishing village where your neighbours lived miles away and the roads were dusty little dirt tracks. The only people around were my mom, my grandma and I, and a few times all three of us (or sometimes not my mom, she sleeps super solid!) would hear things in the middle of the night. I've never really believed in ghosts so if I'd told them I'd heard a woman's voice in the night and they'd agreed, I would have thought they were teasing me. The first time it happened though I woke up to my mom and grandma talking about how they'd heard an unfamiliar woman's voice on and off for a while in the night. It really freaked me out that all three of us heard the same thing. It happened a few more times after that.
There was another time about four years ago when I was standing in the hall of my old house doing my makeup in front of the mirror and talking to my grandma who was right around the corner in her room. I heard a man's voice from right beside me (seriously RIGHT BESIDE me, fricking terrifying), I got so scared that I ran into my grandma's room and leapt onto her bed. Again she'd heard the voice too. It was loud and deep and very obviously right there. That one freaks me out still because I know I heard it and I could make excuses for who could've been talking but the voice was so close to me, I would've seen them. Actually at first I thought someone had broken into the house!

I'm not sure this is a ghost story really but kinda? Maybe? Before all this happened, when I was still young, a sangoma (like a south african witch doctor or traditional healer) came to my house. He was called by a really old friend of my grandma's. He came and he immediately went straight out into the garden, went to the far side of the garden, and dug up a pair of stockings with tiny bottles with fluid in them. The sangoma told us it was put there to harm my grandma and it was put there by someone called Henri, Henri was my father's name and he was an abusive asshole who also hated my grandma. The sangoma said to stop/help things everyone who was there (lots of people, a lot of our family friends) would have to have their foreheads cut. So everyone got cut except for my mom and I because my mom wouldn't let him do it.

Another time we had a maid/nanny, she lived with us and was pretty much part of the family. She told my mom my father had spoonfed my mom some kind of cursed medicine (that sounds silly, I don't know how to explain it in english though) when she came home drunk one night.



Like I said, I'm not sure if I believe in ghosts, although I believe in curses and witchcraft and stuff? do believe you're experiencing this stuff though and whatever it is that's causing the things you're going through, it sounds like if must be scary. Are you totally sure you don't sleepwalk? I would've sworn I'd never done it if I hadn't been caught doing some really weird shit one night, like hanging up ties... I can't explain the voices because I don't have an explanation for mine either. Maybe there is a logical explanation though. I think what's most important is how you feel - do you feel scared, beyond the obvious "what is going on???", do you feel threatened...? I'm no ghost expert but if I was personally in your situation I'd judge how this stuff was making me feel and go from there. If you don't feel safe, you can start taking steps to figure out what this is and how to make it stop. Maybe ask someone you trust for help monitoring things? I'm trying to keep this reasonable because I'm aware of how many ghost movies I've seen and I don't want to go too over the top ;) still, if you're scared then do whatever you need to. This mig be excessive (Paranormal Activity) but since some of this is happening while you're asleep, maybe you could film it? Even it's on an ipad or laptop or something. Sorry I don't have any advice! Let us know how you get on and sorry if this is a garbled mess, I'm shaking cold and very tired! xx

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Mookish Deity Most High

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Yes, I've had my encounters with partial and full full body apparitions along with being poked, slapped, tripped and grabbed by unseen hands. I've seen spoons spin by themselves in mugs, I've seen cabinet doors open by themselves, my mattress slamming down (although,that could have been my body jolting awake), and other things.

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Honoured Mook

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I 100% believe in ghosts/spirits/energies... whatever name you like to call them.

I've seen and felt things, especially as a child.

My first experience was when I was about 10 years old, sat in the pick-up in our field (we were farmers), waiting for my dad to come back. I looked in the wing mirror, and clear as day, there was a figure, wearing a brown hooded robe and holding a sickle... (this was before I knew what the grim reaper was)
I looked a second time and it was still there, and then when I looked a third time, it had gone, so I ran to my dad shaking like a leaf! He asked what was wrong but I wouldn't tell him, as I thought he would just think that I was making things up.

It wasn't until I was a teenager that I brought the subject up, and my dad told me that a farmer had hung himself in that field years ago, and that if I didn't believe him, to ask my gran, which I did. She verified the story... and looking back, the brown robe was exactly what a farmer would have worn years and years ago, and a sickle would have been used to cut crops. Very weird indeed!

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Mookish Deity Most High

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I just realized I didn't answer the second part of the question.

There are different theories for different types of hauntings, but here are the three most common.

-Place memories is where you have a residual thing going on (which is what sounds like you encountered Skye). People laughing, music playing, people fighting, something to that effect. The popular theory right now is it's just certain events were especially emotionally charged enough to just imprint the event into the atmosphere like a record player recording. The more intense version is like a spirit running down the hall, going through walls and ignoring everything.

-Intelligent hauntings is where you have a spirit and it draws from enough energy to manifest and interacts with people and surroundings. It's one of the types I've experienced. I'm not sure about the whether they're trapped here etc, but I do believe in the whole the barrier between the spirits and us is thinnest at the fall solstice. The really popular theory right now is large limestone deposits and also copper are extreme conductors of just the right type of energy.

-Poltergeists are usually caused inadvertently and unconsciously by teenage girls. Hang in there with me. It doesn't happen to every single girl. It's because of the hormones and extreme stress affects the energy around certain girls who vibrate on that wavelength or if a girl seriously bottles everything up. That energy has to go somewhere, yes? The more intense they get (fights with parents, school stress, etc) , the weirder the shit. I will not lie, this is probably the cause of half of what I experienced in my teen years. The more fights my mom and I had, the more shit that happened around the house.



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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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I'm quite literally in two minds about all things "supernatural".
Like Peyton I grew up in fairly isolated surroundings where a lot of things deemed "supernatural" by modern society were considered quite natural. Lost a key or other metallic object? You go dowsing for it. Making a flute? Make sure to chant the proper verse while doing it. Have a hunch that the weather will turn? Better get the hay in. And so on and so forth. When I was a teenager I had problems sleeping because I could hear someone walking around in the hall and into my room (so could the cat) and when I complained to my parents they basically told me not to worry since "If the ghosts wanted to or could harm you they already would have". Big fat pile comfort that was, I became very fond of my walkman for a period then :p But eventually I figured out a way to get rid of the noise.

At the same time, I was taught to love science, the scientific approach to explore the world around us. I'm fairly sceptical to most things, including my own experiences. I usually identify myself as an atheist despite having had a few experiences with "the old gods". That being said, the main problem with all things "supernatural" is that one have to live in a society where there is a consensus about what can exist and what cannot exist. Some atheists are definitively more religious than religious people, and to function in society one have to relate to a rather narrow reality. I have at times had trouble functioning properly because time doesn't truly appear linear to me. Handy when you can recall a dream to find your way instead of freezing to death in the mountain, not so dandy when you are unable to distinguish between real events and unreal events in the same way other people are. Not to mention that a linear sense of time sense is very good for getting things done.

So, even though a lot of things I have experienced seem to make more sense when I assume that time is NOT linear, I've personally found it more useful to investigate "supernatural" things with a stronger focus on observance and exploring than building theories. Simply because it is too much a terra incognita for me to make proper experiments. And at the end of the day, putting effort into getting a university degree can put bread on the table. To even begin to figure out supernatural phenomena would take more effort than that, considering how marginal it is in our society. And I can't put it on my CV. So I've stopped asking myself if ghosts and magic exists, what I care about is the pragmatic "does it work?"


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Honoured Mook

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Wiggles I'm positive I don't sleep walk. The bottle incident happened when someone was stopping over and sleeping next to me and he always slept holding onto me so I wouldn't have been able to move. Everyone I've had sharing a room with me says I sleep like a log too, I practically look dead when I'm asleep and can sleep through earthquakes and fire engines outside the house with sirens on it seems. I think your story is really interesting. Scary to have dug up some vials like that in the garden.

Skye-foxe, I've seen something similar to that. There's a bar/nightxlub in town called The Friary, as it used to be a Friary for Dominican monks (who wear black robes). When they were excavating to build the hotel (it was a hotel before a bar/club) they started finding skeletons so stopped excavating that area. I went there twice on a ghost walk, the first time with my friend and our respective partners at the time. I thought I'd have a laugh and slapped her arse when they turned the lights off in the room where they started finding skeletons. That was funny, what wasn't was when she said someone was pulling her hair. We were near the rest of the group, I wouldn't pull hair and neither would my partner or her, they wouldn't dare. She gets upset about it still now. They have people dressed as monks in black robes to jump out and scare you and take your photo as you leave the room. The second time I went I saw someone in a black robe standing in this lower area, with a rail and gate to stop people going in where the boilers are. I asked at the end did they put someone down there to stare at us and scare us and they said no. They aren't allowed down there and the gate was locked anyway. Creepy.

ChynaRoze, think I've experienced place memories and poltergeists. The bottle smashing incident happened earlier this year however, so I was 21, way past the teenage years. Do you think poltergeist activity can carry on after that?

Irilar, where I was born was near a town and a lot less down with the supernatural. Think my Dad believes to an extent, he got me a book on pendulums as a child and tarot cards, books on wicca etc. But still, more with the science. Would you say, people who live more in the countryside, away from cities etc, tend to believe more in the supernatural, and if so, why? I'm just curious, as I've only lived in suburbs, near cities or towns myself.

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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I'm not sure if rural people have a stronger tendency to believe in the supernatural than urban people, maybe. I'm quite sure old traditions alive longer though. I think that urban people who believe in the supernatural have a tendency to be more influenced by the beliefs of from the anglosphere, while rural people are more influenced by the old traditions.

I have a hypothesis though, that people who live out in the wilderness are a bit more likely to experience "supernatural" phenomena than people who live in more densely populated areas. Based on my own experience, living in cities and/or being around other people all the time necessitates that you to some degree "close yourself off" to your surroundings. There is simply so much stuff going on that you have to put up mental shields around you. If I were to walk down a busy street being as sensitive and open to my surroundings as I am when I go for a walk in the forest alone I'd collapse from mental exhaustion in less than a minute.
I think that regardless whether experiences of the supernatural happens in our heads or have an external reason, it most often happens when our guards are down so to speak. When we are about to fall asleep, under the influence of some kind of drug, are meditating, deliberately trying to get in touch with something supernatural and such. And at least for me and some friends I've discussed this with, living in nature with few or no other people around makes us go into a different, more relaxed mode of relating to our surroundings.
Heh, I don't know if that made any sense?

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Mookish Deity Most High

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Like Irilar I'm fascinated with science [got a degree in it on the wall lol] but a well-known scientist said that the three most important words in science are "I don't know",because that's how scientific investigations work. I also watch Doctor Who,the only show worth watching IMO,and it often has a lot of interesting concepts ; in the [scarier than you'd expect] "Journey To The Centre of the Tardis",a crack in time leads to past,and possible alternate future events,bleeding* into the present. It's also a fact that we perceive only a limited range of the EM spectrum,whereas other animals and insects can detect IR and UV,the Earth's magnetic field and so on. There's also a local author on supernatural phenomena who's published over 20 books from accounts from the public of strange things with no apparent explanation,and that's just from around Merseyside. Given how long ghost stories have been around,then I think there are certainly "more things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of".

Basically,IMO,there's an awful lot we don't know about the true nature of reality because we're not equipped to perceive it,(just look at how weird quantum theory is),which is why I consider ghosts and a lot of that ilk to be originating from parallel dimensions which are just slightly out of either spatial or temporal sync with ours,or possibly both,and in which time flows at a different rate** to ours. I also consider that it's possible for whatever exists in those dimensions to have the ability to jump between them,much like the famous "flatland" thought experiments in which a wall in a 2D land is just a line to jump over for a 3D creature.

So yeah,the multiverse is wibbly-wobbley timey-wimey. Us Whovians know this,we're just waiting for science to catch us up. ;) Seriously,I also believe that science will eventually be able to explain it all ; understanding the Universe is a permanent work-in-progress which may take some time though.

[*literally. There are zombies. Burning Time Zombies from a possible future universe. Beat that,Romero!]

[**see also "The Girl Who Waited" and the Narnia books]

Dave.

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Mookish Deity Most High

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Ivy- Maybe? I suppose it could carry into young adulthood. We had a hell of a time because my mum was in the middle of menopause while I was a teenager and as a result it got ugly and then my father would get in the middle of our fights so we had various degrees of poltergeist-type activity until I was about 19. They're mainly caused by seriously bottled up stress/emotions from what I understand which is why activity frequently occurs around teenagers.

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Honoured Mook

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Irilar, you made sense don't worry. Think you may be right about city people closing off. They'd probably assume noise etc come from other people in apartments, cars etc too. I live in the suburbs, so can't know for definite, but as cities are naturally noisier, think any strange sounds would pretty much be ignored/unnoticed.

Skgogosfan, big Doctor Who fan too! Quantum theory is pretty weird, I studied it a bit when I did my Physics A Level, and I think you're very much right. They say dogs seem to notice things that humans don't, e.g. when they bark in the night when there's nobody seemingly there.

ChynaRoze, poltergeists aren't fun, but can make things a bit more interesting. Fairly sure I had one, until I burnt sage and carried it round the room and basically told whoever was there to bog off and let me sleep.

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Mookish Deity Most High

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That works.

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Mookish Deity Most High

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I noticed today's headline in the Daily Star was "Terrifying plague of black-eyed ghost children: Shock rise around the world". Hmm,the Star. Totally legit,obvs.

Dave.

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New posters should read "So you joined Mooky" in the FAQ forum. Or Matt Bellamy on an armoured flying unicorn shall smite you. With lasers! \m/

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Honoured Mook

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Haha obviously a valuable piece of truthful information from the star! You mean like this? www.livingdeaddolls.com/lddarchive/25_04.html

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Mookish Deity Most High

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Ghost thread? Yay!

I'm a massive believer in ghosts, which sounds odd since I also believe in reincarnation. However, I see ghosts as people who are for any reason unable to leave that particular life until they are appeased.

I think the biggest reason I am such a strong believer in ghosts is because I've had a few encounters with them, the most prominent being the ghost of Sybil Penn at Hampton Court Palace. I saw a woman in dark Tudor dress pass right through a wall in the wine cellars of the Palace during a school trip, in the middle of the day and in a busy room! I've also felt the presence of ghosts whilst in York, particularly that of the Duke of Norfolk (I think?), who is known to walk around the Shambles at night, I think headless, as well as feeling really odd when we were near the Hilton Hotel there, which a ghost walk operator told me was actually built on a mass grave for suspected witches.
However, I distinctly remember my first experience with ghosts being when I visited a place called Oakwell Hall near me, in a room where the master of the house was crushed in his bed when the ceiling collapsed; the room was ridiculously cold, even though it was summer. There's also a bloody handprint in one of the rooms there left by another ghost, which is on display on the floor in a glass case.

Then there's the matter of my current house likely being haunted by the old lady who died here a couple of years before we moved in. The house creaks for no reason and things tend to fall randomly, usually in my room. I'm considering learning to talk to spirits so that I can tell her to leave me alone.



-- Edited by Amaranth=Rayne on Tuesday 7th of October 2014 07:34:57 PM

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Honoured Mook

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Glad you approve Amaranth=Rayne!

How did you know who the ghosts were out of interest? Or did you just know about local legends etc? Bloody handprint in the glass case? Sounds spooky! How do they know it came from a ghost, could have just been someone messing about. When I was being bothered, I burnt sage and wafted the smoke around the room and told whoever was there to bog off and let me sleep. Seemed to work until I moved house. Don't seem to get bothered now.

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Mookish Deity Most High

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Amaranth, you don't need to know how to talk to them, you just say fuck off and they ought to listen.

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Honoured Mook

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ChynaRoze, I like your style!

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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Haha! That was nothing less than brilliant Chyna!


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Mookish Deity Most High

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Haha, I'll keep that in mind Chyna!

I know many of those ghosts through local legends, researching and ghost walks, though the old lady haunting my house is just from my experiences with her. Also, the bloody handprint has been proved to be genuine, as even modern cleaning stuff hasn't got rid of it, and it's been there a couple of hundred years already!
As for the old lady ghost, she's usually okay and the creaking no longer bugs me, it's just when she sometimes decides to knock things onto the floor when she annoys me.

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Honoured Mook

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Messy ghost! Cleaning products don't remove it? That's very strange!

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