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Post Info TOPIC: Boycotts, what ya got?


Honoured Mook

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RE: Boycotts, what ya got?


red spirit moon wrote:

I am boycotting Primark as of....






... now.



we have a version in ireland same name brand but the stores called pennies...what's wrong with it?


I boycott anything playboy or any major labels.
and all fast food restraunts bar pizza

 



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Seasoned Mookster

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Jellah_bean wrote:

red spirit moon wrote:

I am boycotting Primark as of....






... now.



we have a version in ireland same name brand but the stores called pennies...what's wrong with it?


I boycott anything playboy or any major labels.
and all fast food restraunts bar pizza

 



The Devil Wears Primark (Not a great link, but you get the idea)
Basically because of their unfair wages for developing countries.

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High Mookish Shaman

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Yes, that's exactly why.

And what's worse, they had the cheek to put up signs in their store saying "we trade ethically" !


Eithical my arse.

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International Mook of Mystery (mod)

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Most major superstores such as Walmart, Target, etc. I grudgingly go to my local Meijer's because it carries the biggest selection of fair trade items, and has an outreach program to local farms (and therefore gets all the produce it can from within state borders). That, and it's the only store with groceries that hasn't been shut out by the Walmart about 15 minutes down the road.

Bottled water, because the plastic is harmful/wasteful and the principal of it. No one is too good for water from an easily available tap, damn it!

And generally everything else people have stated; Nike, Adidas, Coca-Cola, Nestle, etc.

Coke has been the hardest to boycott, but I've found a decent solution in Jones Soda when I crave sugary goodness. As far as research has told me, isn't connected to Coca-Cola.


-- Edited by Izil at 05:41, 2009-03-06

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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I must admit I buy bottled water -the ones with bubbles and flavour. It's not the same as tap water, it is a good replacement for soda (I don't like soda much, it's too sweet and strong).

Btw: Isn't the bottles recycled where you live? In here you take sodabottles and such back to the shop, get a small amount of money from them and the bottles are sent back to the breweries to be re-used.

Edit: When I think about it, why should I boycott bottled water? It's a healthier alternative to soda and less sugar and other stuff is added. It is produced by local breweries and the bottles are recycled. I think it is more enviromentally friendly than much of the other stuff I buy.



-- Edited by Irilar at 06:50, 2009-03-06

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MookyDuchess

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Hmmm... Bottled water...

Nestle own and produce:
Aberfoyle
Aqua D'Or
Aqua Pod
Acqua Panna
Al Manhal
Aquapod
Arrowhead
Buxton
Contrex
Dar Natury (Poland)
Deer Park
Hépar
Ice Mountain
Korpi
Levissima
Naczowianka (Poland)
Nestlé Aquarel
Nestlé Vera
Ozarka
Perrier
Poland Spring
Powwow
Minere
Pure Life/Pureza Vital
Quézac
San Pellegrino
San Bernardo
Viladrau
Vittel
Zephyrhills

Coca Cola own and produce:
Aquabona (previously Bonaqua) - Mineral water available in Spain.[7] Sold under brand name Bonaqua in South Africa.
Aquapure [5]
Aqvaris [5]
Aqua Shot - flavoured water available in New Zealand.
Arwa - mineral water sold in the West Bank & the Gaza Strip
Avra - bottled water available in Greece[10]
Bankia - mineral water available in Bulgaria.
BonAqua/BonAqa - Bottled water, carbonated and noncarbonated, fruit-flavoured or unflavoured. Available in parts of Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America. [9]. Renamed "Aquabona" in Spain. [7]
Chaudfontaine - Bottled water available in The Netherlands and in Belgium. [11]
Ciel - Purified, noncarbonated bottled water available in Angola, Mexico and Morocco. [9]
Ciel+ - Flavoured water available in Mexico. [9]
Cristal - mineral water
Cumberland Gap [5]
Crystal [3]
Dasani - Bottled water. [3]
Dasani Active[3]
Dasani Balance[3]
Dasani Flavors - Flavored and lightly sweetened water.[9]
Dasani Nutriwater[3]
Dasani Plus - Vitamin-enhanced flavored water.[9]
Dasani Sensations [9]
Deep River Rock - Bottled water available in Ireland.
Doazen - drinking spring water in Turkey. [15]
Dorna - Sparkling mineral water available in Romania and Moldova. [16][3]
Eva Water [3]
Ice Dew - Bottled water available in China. [9]
Ice Mountain - Bottled water available in Singapore. [11]
Kin - Bottled water available in Argentina. [11]
Kinley - This brand is used by two types of drinks:
Bottled still water available in Bangladesh, Bulgaria, India, Maldives and Nigeria.[9]
A carbonated water with a wide array of variants: tonic, bitter lemon, club soda and fruit flavored. Available in Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Germany, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Maldives, Moldova, Nepal, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Sweden, Switzerland, United States, West Bank-Gaza and Zambia.[9]
Kiwi Blue - Bottled water available in New Zealand. [9]
Lilia - Natural mineral water available in Italy
Malvern - Bottled spring water available in the UK. [3]
Mori No Mizudayori - Bottled water available in Japan. [11]
Mount Franklin - Bottled water available in Australia.
Multiva - Bottled water available in Poland. [11]
Nature's Own - Flavored mineral water available in Papuva Nueva Guinea.[9]
Neverfail - Bottled water available in Australia. [11]
Pump - Bottled water available in Australia, New Zealand and Fiji. [11]
San Luis - Bottled water available in Peru.
Splash - A clear soft drink available since 1995 in the autonomous community of Andalusia, Spain. [7]
Spring! by Dannon - Bottled spring water available in the United States. [9]
Spring! by Dannon Fluoride to Go - Fluoridated spring water available in the United States. [9]
Valpre - Bottled water available in South Africa. [11]
Valser - Flavoured and unflavoured bottled water available in Germany, Russia and Switzerland. [9]
Vital - Bottled water available in Chile. [6]
Vital O
Vitamin Water
Viva! - Natural mineral water available in Philippines. [9]

I copied and edited the coke one from Wiki so I may have missed a load, seriously, they produce hundreds of brands.

And a quick introduction to why bottled water is wrong is here.



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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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I'm happy to say that none of the bottled water I buy is on that list.

And while I can see from the link that there are some good arguments against buying bottled water in US, where the bottles are not brought back to the brewery, that obviously do not apply in Scandinavia, where we do.

And the Finnish tap water mentioned in this article might be wasteful to drink due to the transport. Except when you live in Finland.
Why anyone would pay to drink Finnish tap water is beyond me though. Unless of course you live in places like for example Rome, where the tap water is so full of chlorine and god knows what that it burns your throat. Or Reykjavik where the smell of sulphur oozes around all water taps.

Water isn't just water, it tastes differently in different places. I can't say I see the big difference between importing water that actually taste good, and importing foreign fruits like for example oranges.

Also, I do not see why drinking bottled water is worse than drinking soda. Drinking tap water is a good point, but refraining from buying bottled water only to buy soda or other soft drinks instead is just daft. There is no environmental bonus in that.




-- Edited by Irilar at 10:47, 2009-03-06

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Seasoned Mookster

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It's bottled WATER. You're paying money for people to put water in a bottle, transport it around a while and stock it in a shop/restaurant. For water. That you can get out of a tap and carry with you/order.
It's the principle.

Yeah if you're thirsty and have no water buy a bottle (Not made by a giant corporation) and then you ca re-use it so you won't be caught short next time.
But some people buy bottles of water and just throw them, not good. For their pocket or the environment.

I'd say don't buy soda either, but that's just my opinion.

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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As I said, water is not just water. You have different types of water, and the diference matters.
And while I have occasionally trekked up in the mountain to get to a special spring of "sweet" water I'm not going to do that every time I want to drink something good.

I can NOT get the same kind of water out of the tap, neither can a whole lot of other people. And while my tap water is perfectly ok, although nothing special (despite it apparently being exported to other countries), many people live places where the tap water is not ok to drink.

Water from the tap is what I drink daily, and yes I do bring it with me. But sometimes it is nice to drink something that is actually yummy.

And I do not feel particulary bad for having someone fetch that special water, put some bubbles and extra flavour to it and sell it to me. If I did, I would also have to feel bad about buying for example juice, beer, wine and most vegetables and fruit that are in the shop. Not to mention chcocolate.

I'm no angel, I have my vices, but if I'm going to sacrifice something for the greater good, I'd rather sacrifice something that actually have a huge impact instead of some little thing as buying water that has been transported down from the mountains or from a spring in Ostrobothnia.




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High Mookish Shaman

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red spirit moon wrote:

Yes, that's exactly why.

And what's worse, they had the cheek to put up signs in their store saying "we trade ethically" !


Eithical my arse.



HA!
That's what people need to fucking realise!
Thank you someone who actually gets were I am coming from.

Just because I don't shop at Primark some people's reactions to that are
''Oh my God how can you not shop at Primark?''
And I go ''Well Primark is not the best shop in the world hang on is it?'' [with sarcasm]

Then people will give me a look like I am from Mars just because I don't shop there.
It's like some people are acting like it's the greatest shop in mankind.
Primark is cheap we get it! Primark enhances sweatshops most people don't get that. Sheesh!

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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I got another firm on my boycott list:

The dairy company Arla-Ingman. Even though there is produced more milk here in Finland than is needed for for local consumption, Arla-Ingman imports milk from Sweden.

Anyway, the other big dairy company here, Valio, is owned by milkfarmers. They are also the ones who have organic milkproducts. So the choice from who I'm buying my yoghurt is easy.

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Regular Crew

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Ladybird, why don't you buy from Israel? Do you mean Israel Israel or Palestine? There's a big difference. Coming from a Palestinian family, I like to have as many reasons to avoid Israeli things as possible.

You know, I never knew about all of this Nestle and Coca Cola stuff... I've never seen it on the news. Everything seems to be connected to everything! I think rather than trying to find out all the things I can't buy by boycotting these, I'll just shop from small, local brands and businesses.

I like Co-Op, they don't test their cleaning products and stuff on animals (BUAV supported) and they encourage Fair Trade which is always nice. Also, with bottled water, I do buy it because I do alot of ballet, and need to take water with me. I would refill, but I have an extreme germ thing and don't like to. Instead I buy One Water, it gives 100% of its profits to fund building water pumps in needy areas in Africa. They're called PlayPumps, it's like a roundabout, so when the children play on it, it pumps the water. That way, children can go to school instead of spending the day walking to the water pump and back.

I boycott any products which test on animals, including cleaning products and and the pomegranate juice POM which have a disgustingly cruel way of testing the health benefits. Barry M doesn't test on animals, neither does Tesco Make-Up, the one designed by Barbara Daly. I know Tesco is a giant evil thing too but I need make up which isn't tested on animals and is also really pale, so I don't have many oprions haha! DON'T buy from Unilever or Procter and Gamble, they are horrible bunny torturers, and own Allways, Dove, Head and Shoulders and all sorts.



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Seasoned Mookster

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I wont buy israeli eithier, i disagree with theire treatment of the palestinians.
I also try my best to avoid chinese product. As a nation pherhapes the people are lovely, i carnt comment, but i disagree with with the 1 party system and the terrible human rights record.

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Honoured Mook

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Irilar wrote:


I can NOT get the same kind of water out of the tap, neither can a whole lot of other people. And while my tap water is perfectly ok, although nothing special (despite it apparently being exported to other countries), many people live places where the tap water is not ok to drink.


I wouldn't drink the tap water where I live, I don't think most people in my town would. There's either waaay too much chlorine in it, or not enough of whatever they do to it being done to it, and who knows what floats in the river it's pumped from. It also used to give me a whopping bad throat, I don't know if it still would because I haven't drank tap water in so long, but I guess if you've always drank it you wouldn't notice funny tastes or weird colours.

I don't buy bottled though, what a rip off, I figure why bother forking out to buy it when my family use tank water anyway?  I reckon the world wouldn't be running out of fresh water if everyone had water tanks to help out. hmm

Oh, and we do the bottle recycling here (Australia) too, it used to be more widespread, but now I think it's only in South Australia. At least that's what it says on all the plastic and glass bottles in my state, which coincidentally is not S.A..

 



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Regular Crew

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i boycott newpapers and their filth. I despise The Sun. Its a porno in disguise and parades women like slabs of meat. I despise the Daily Mail for its scare-mongering. I boycott all journalistic media.

Think about it.

Everything we know, everything we believe and have come to believe (rights and wrongs), we have been told by someone else. the information we learn about the world is fed through the words of an overpaid media puppy.

How much of it have we learnt for ourselves through experience?

Not a lot.

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Honoured Mook

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Nestle.
Coke (though this hard as everyone has said!)

I don't buy any big brand name clothes, and mostly shop in charity shops.
I also try to buy as much of my weekly food shop as i can in smaller shops and in the indoor market.

"Organic" things.
I refuse to buy any specifically labeled "organic" produce, its just a crappy product dressed up as being better as the whole world has sundenly gone all "natural" and decided that all things not "natural" are evil.

Plus a while agao there was really bad disease that was killing off all of the organic potatoes - but so they didn't lose their livelyhood, organic farmers were allowed to use pesticides and for the potatoes still to be called "organic"

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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Organic products ARE better, in my opinion mainly because there are stricter ethical rules for productions. Meaning that it is less damaging for the environment and the animals actually have a good life.

But I've heard that the organic label is not a good guarantee in all countries. That potato story sounds outrageous. I know of situations where it might be necessary to use such drastic methods, but the potatoes from those fields wouldn't be "organic" until after a few years quarantine. So perhaps the label "organic" isn't worth much where you live.

Still, polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers now and then is still better than doing it all the fucking time.

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Honoured Mook

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I didn't mean to offend you, its just my opinion and I chose to post it as it was quite different from the other posts.

I the UK at least I feel organic produce is inferrera and  just to get more money out people.

Living completely ethically is absolutely impossible, one just has to pick the causes they feel most strongly about.

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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I'm not offended, I just disagree :) The us of the f-word in the last sentence sneaked in due to my anger at how the countryside is polluted by farming. I see now that I should have refrained from swearing since it could easily be interpreted as if I'm angry at you. Sorry about that.

But I totally agree that one have to pick the cases one think is most important. For me, what is emotionally closest to my heart is animal welfare. And I think environmental issues is what's most important for the welfare of everyone. Therefore, buying organic food is very high on my priority list.

Anyway, I think it is rewarding to discuss the reasons behind our opinions. And I must admit I do not understand yours. Why do you think organic food is inferior to conventionally produced food?


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Honoured Mook

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I'm glad you are not offended, The world would be very dull if nobody ever had oposing opinions.

My views can only be based on what i see in he UK, maybe in Finland its done better.
In this country I have found food labeled as organic to be significantly smaller, incrediably over packaged and at least double the price.

Its not nessaryly the idea of organic food that annoys me, more the culture that has grown up around it, people tend to think that if something is labeled 'organic' or 'natural' that it is automatically better, even if they haven't really looked at it.
some of these people also tend to shun anything man made and often scientific research.
(I am not at all saying this what all people who buy organic think!)

'Organic' animals are not given vacinations against disease or medicine.
As someone who feels strongly about animal welfare, do you not think this is wrong?
Imagine if we did the same to people.



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International Mook of Mystery (mod)

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Hmmm... the only one I'm truly passionate about is Coca Cola and all the brands it owns, and I haven't found that difficult at all. I don't like the way Coke is marketed, I don't like the fact that they packaged up drugs and invented a big happy Santa Claus to sell it, and I know that they have other very dodgy things going on with their business.

Other than that, I am in no position to "boycott" anything. Coke is easy, because soft drink is not something that you HAVE to buy. I do, however, HAVE to buy food, stationery, shoes and other things, and in most cases it's value over ethics. When I can, I try to buy Australian made/grown, but in most cases I can't afford the "sweat-shop free" or "organic" product.

One thing that you may be interested to know is that "free range" is a very loose term. Depending on where you live, the chickens only have to be out for a certain number of hours per day, then they can be (and often are) locked back up in cages again. I have been advised by people working in various animal protection agencies that buying "barn laid" eggs is often a better bet, as at least the chickens have constant conditions which I feel are humane.

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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Danni wrote:

I'm glad you are not offended, The world would be very dull if nobody ever had oposing opinions.

My views can only be based on what i see in he UK, maybe in Finland its done better.
In this country I have found food labeled as organic to be significantly smaller, incrediably over packaged and at least double the price.

Its not nessaryly the idea of organic food that annoys me, more the culture that has grown up around it, people tend to think that if something is labeled 'organic' or 'natural' that it is automatically better, even if they haven't really looked at it.
some of these people also tend to shun anything man made and often scientific research.
(I am not at all saying this what all people who buy organic think!)

'Organic' animals are not given vacinations against disease or medicine.
As someone who feels strongly about animal welfare, do you not think this is wrong?
Imagine if we did the same to people.



I have a hard time believing that organic farm animals are not given medicine when they are a sick, even in England.
Now, it might be some weirdos (every moment has some) who use only alternative medicine on their animals, just as they do to themselves and their kids, but that is hardly common.
That this is a norm within organic food production sound about as likely that all Christians are bombing abortion clinics. Most organic farmers are just ordinary farmers who for some reason or other (there are myriads of different ones) have chosen to produce organic food.

Indeed there are often alternative ways to treat a sick animal, just as it is with human beings. For example can an outbreak of mastitis in a dairy cow sometimes be cured if you find out early on and massage the udder with strong peppermint salve. Similarly you can sometimes cure a flu in human beings if you discover it on an early stage and munch down a huge amount of c-vitamin tablets.
But in both cases, if it doesn't work, and you just are getting more ill, you go to the doctor to get antibiotics.

But antibiotics should be used with care, because the more they are used, the more resistant the bacteria become. And that is dangerous.
Some places, in conventional farming one give antibiotics to cattle pretty much as a "vaccination", because one do not have time/money to take care of animals that might be sick. It is also used to make them grow faster.

This is an example of a vaccination/medication practice that is not done in organic farming. Because it threatens the health of both animals and humans. I think it is an example of why organic farming is better than conventional farming. Except of course where it is illegal to use antibiotics like that at all anyway, like for example in Norway.

So to make a short summary:
I do not believe you when you say that organic farmers don't give vaccinations and medicine to their animals. Not until you show me the part of the regulations for organic farming that says so, or some evidence that not giving medicine to the animals at all is common among organic farmers.

 



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Honoured Mook

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On doing a bit more research /research
I can tell you that if a vet can prove that the animal is being caused long term suffering or pain it can be treated.
Animals will only be vaccinated if a vet says there is proven risk.


I think that all animals should be vaccinated before there is a risk.
I completely agree that antibiotics should be handed out so freely, a proper doctor would not.
vaccines and antibiotics are completely different things though.

"The use of homeopathy is also encouraged."
This is wrong. Homeopathy is a big pile of unproven rubbish.

I have no problem with animal welfare standards being put into place I do not condone animal cruelty, so if higher standards are put inplace i agree that that is a good thing.

Like i said my main problem with organic is the culture that has grown up around it.
(and that the vegetables are smaller, more expensive and overpackaged)

where do you stand on GM crops?

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Runic Mook of the North (mod)

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The same paragraph that contains "The use of homeopathy is also encouraged" also specifies that conventional medicine MUST be used when necessary. The whole paragraph is:

"Conventional medicines can and must be used where it is necessary to prevent prolonged illness or suffering. Increased withdrawal periods for all medicines are required under organic standards. The use of homeopathy is also encouraged."

By taking the bit about homeopathy out of it's context you are giving a picture of organic animal welfare that is simply not the truth.

I think your research shows that your initial statement that "'Organic' animals are not given vacinations against disease or medicine." is plain wrong.

As for GM crops I do not have any objections to this in itself. Modifying the genes of plants and animals have been going on for more than 10000 years, GM is in principle little different from selective breeding.
However, companies like Monsanto who develop new crops with higher tolerance for pesticides, so that even more poison can be spread out over the countryside (not to mention their other behaviour), I pretty much view as evil incarnated in earthly form.

I can also add that I am provoked by certain practices in the development of new crops in general, like for example making new breeds of strawberries where the focus is on shape,size and looks of the berry and the taste of the berry is completely disregarded.
I prefer a small, oddly shaped berry that taste sweet over a big one that taste watery any day.

If one use gene modification to make better crops, that encourages a more environmentally sound production I'm all for it. If gene modification is used to make crops that results in a negative impact on the environment I'm against.


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Honoured Mook

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Danni wrote:

On doing a bit more research /research
I can tell you that if a vet can prove that the animal is being caused long term suffering or pain it can be treated.
Animals will only be vaccinated if a vet says there is proven risk.


I know that futher research made my first statement wrong, which is why i posted my findings with links.
I am happy to admitt that i should have gone to a realiable source to begin with.
I am not trying to say that organic animal welfare is any worse than any other animal welfare.

As for GM crops, i think that it is a good thing if they can produce (for example) wheat with a higher tolerance for drought etc...
I only ask as many people seem to dislike it.

 



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Seasoned Mookster

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Boycott P&G day - 16th May

Uncaged
Boycott P and G
P and G Kills

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High Mookish Shaman

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As of today I will also boycott Head and Shoulders [P and G are evil], Coca Cola and let's not forget Nestle. I was going to boycott Nestle because of the whole thing about farmers not getting enough pay but then I looked into the whole Nestle baby formula more and that clearly made my mind up about boycotting Nestle.

-- Edited by Hendrixsa on Tuesday 2nd of June 2009 04:40:16 PM

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Short snippet of my song: Bees Knees

Your eyes they still wail out conflict
But you still think your the bees knees
You keep choking on your vulgar slurs
But in the end it's a comforting pity...
You still like to imagine that you are the bees knees.



International Mook of Mystery (mod)

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Why do so many people boycott Nestle?

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Honoured Mook

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Links on the first page, kindly provided by Kitty fire :)

I boycott all non-fairtrade clothing. I wait around for sales on the fairtrade stuff or go to charity shops. Sadly, this pretty much screws me for every part-time job interview where they ask "where's your favourite place to shop?".
I'm gonna check out the coca cola info page to be horrified because I drink way too much diet coke.
I suppose you could say I boycott meat.

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International Mook of Mystery (mod)

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That Nestle boycott website is not very convincing...

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