I just saw half of the first episode of this documentary series, but it made me so angry I had to turn it off.

Basically it is about how the (idealized) Caucasian body form is such a norm in the society that some people with other ethnic body traits feel they can't be happy in the body they have and feel they have to change it by surgery.

Now, I shall be the first to applaud a persons right to mould their body to whatever shape and look they want. But when people feel that they are ugly just because they don't fit the ideals of the ethnic majority something is wrong. They don't do it for themselves, they do it to fit in. They are made to feel inferior because they don't look exactly the same as everybody else. People stare at them, make rude comments and view them as inferior.

What is wrong with having some diversity? MUST everyone look like Barbie and Ken to be valuable human beings?

I'm so sick and tired of conformity. March in step. Be normal. Always watch your peers from the corner of your eye to make sure that you are acceptable. Squeeze yourself into the shape that the majority think is beauty. Or we will light the torches and hound you out of the village you circus freak you.

argh!

argh, this was an angry and possibly incoherent rant.

No, I agree with you totally. And if you think you're being incoherent Irilar, then most of the time I must sound like I've had my tongue ripped out.

It's so entirely ridiculous that in Asia, for example, people will alter their eyelids to make their eyes looks more Western, as that's what's considered beautiful. My ex was Chinese, and I've never heard such crap in my life as when she explained why she felt ugly next to her white friends. It practically made me cry. She's beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, and to feel bad about this is so unbelievably fucked up. Why do people fall in love with other people, personality, looks, warts and all, and then believe that they themselves can only be loved if their every physical feature corresponds to some twisted and perverted ideal?

Now THAT was incoherent. Good grief, I'm meant to be writing a logical and articulate essay atm. Oh dear ^_^

Check this out:

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

They're only 50 seconds each, they're a series of adverts for a cream that promises to lighten skin and it is marketed at women of middle eastern ethnicity. The woman who uses the cream in the adverts is a former Miss World, and she's saying you need lighter skin? Maybe she was using it when she won, I don't know. How the hell does it even work anyway?
It's awful.

I do agree, in a sense. It's a shame if people feel they are ugly unless they do something to alter their body. To me, this includes bleaching, double eyelids, breast implants and even shaving. Nobody should be made to feel (or even suggested to feel) that they are not up to par as is. But, I'm not sure that our own cultures are entirely free of these thoughts either.

As I mentioned, shaving is something most women do on a normal basis. We didn't used to do it, it's a very recent fashion in fact. I may understand the need to shave armpits to prevent even worse body odor. I can also fathom wanting to shave because smooth skin feels wonderful (which is why I shave usually.) Several women I know, though, would not even think of leaving the house exposing unshaven legs. Is this type of thinking really so much different than someone using lightening cream to get a paler complexion?

Aenigma wrote:

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It's so entirely ridiculous that in Asia, for example, people will alter their eyelids to make their eyes looks more Western, as that's what's considered beautiful. My ex was Chinese, and I've never heard such crap in my life as when she explained why she felt ugly next to her white friends. It practically made me cry. She's beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, and to feel bad about this is so unbelievably fucked up. Why do people fall in love with other people, personality, looks, warts and all, and then believe that they themselves can only be loved if their every physical feature corresponds to some twisted and perverted ideal?

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The poor girl! I think chinese people are absolutely beautiful! In fact, I used to want to be Chinese when I was younger. Their eyes are lovely!

 

When I went to Singapore, all I saw was creams for lightening the skin! I mean, that is in a country where EVERYONE LOOKS ASIAN. So surely, to whiten and lighten yourself, is to not conform? Plus, you can see things on the internet for japanese people to stick on their eyelids to make them into western eyelids.

It makes me sad.

The woman who uses the cream in the adverts is a former Miss World, and she's saying you need lighter skin? Maybe she was using it when she won, I don't know. How the hell does it even work anyway?

It doesn't help when these types if incidents occur. There are cases of people altering themselves who then become celebrities. Whether or not the alterations had real or imagine affects doesn't matter nearly as much as the perceived affect from everyone else. I believe Jackie Chan had surgery to get double eyelids.

The one case I have heard of that vaguely makes sense for double eyelids is a girl who was born with one single eyelid and one double eyelid. I know if one of my breasts was noticeably larger than the other, I would consider surgery as well.

Double eyelids?

Yes, if you have double eyelids than when your eyes are fully open there is a crease where your eyelid has folded above your eye. If you have a single eyelid, even with your eyes open your lid is smooth. Single eyelids make eyes look less round and, generally, are found on asian faces.

So, it's becoming more popular for asian men and women to want double eyelids. You can buy eyelid tape, if you want. It's pretty much a piece of tape that forces your eye to fold when you open your eyes. Or, if you're really extreme, you can get the surgery done to yourself. It's painful too.

A lot of people in Western cultures are so unconcerned with eyelids that it's not something most of us have heard of at all. It doesn't even register on our radars as something to be done for cosmetics.

The skin whittening doesn't have everything to do with looking caucasion either. In fact, in a round about way, it can also be considered the opposite. Girls in Japan who tan themselves and bleach their hair are often considered loose and easy. So, sometimes skin lightening can be an effort not to be included in that group of people. The manga Peach Girl focuses on a girl who tans easily and there are numerous examples throughout the manga about the hardships of living in Japan with darker skin and lighter hair.

Ohh, I'm with you. I thought you meant like camels.

I'm not sure how I feel about this one.
Being made to feel bad because of ethnicity is a terrible thing, and feeling that you HAVE to change yourself because of it (like the eyelid thing) is quite sad.
On the other hand, aren't we all changing ourselves in some way or another? I look at some older actors and laugh at how terrible the crap they've injected into their skin makes them look, yet it's ok for me to inject ink into mine? One is art, and the other is... not?

It goes too far on the other side, too. Every time I hear someone say they are for "fat acceptance" I want to slap them.

I think you're missing the point. This is about feeling obliged to change one's ethnic appearance, which one has no control over, to fit a standard of beauty that does not take account of racial variation. Actors and people who get tattoos are not born into those careers or with those desires: they choose to do that. It's not the same to choose to get Botox for one's job when you could just find another job, and to have surgery on your eyelids just because you were born of Asian and not Caucasian descent.

Just like to point out that I don't have anything against people who get Botox, tattoos or *insert body modification example here*. However, hopefully you choose to do it for yourself rather than because there's something screwed up in society that implies you are of less value if you do not.

I watched those skin lightening commercial things and was pretty disgusted. So the man left her for a paler woman and then she started using the cream so he got back with her? That's fucked. Why would she want to be with him anyway? And even the name "white beauty" sounds awful.
But if you think about it, the Caucasian race are doing the same thing. There are girls (and boys) who go out and use tanning beds and spray tans because they want to look darker. However, this is not so much about race as it is about looking wealthy, like you get to go on holiday a lot.
I think people should just stick to their natural skin tone. I know a Middle-Eastern girl who is quite emo and uses light foundation, which doesn't suit her at all. And then I know naturally pale girls who use orange or dark foundation. My sister's towel is sometimes covered in it after she washes her face...it's a shame becasue these girls would be gorgeous if they stayed natural and didn't try to look so different.
Meh, I stick to my own skin. I don't use foundation a lot and if I do it's pale sheer mineral stuff. I wear sunscreen when I'm going to be outside because I do burn very easily, and I'm paranoid about skin cancer and wrinkles.

Exactly Aenigma.



What the program was about, and what made me so upset, is how people from ethnic minorities is treated in western societies and what values are expressed in the public space. An example is men from south-east asia who is average height there, but very short in for example England. One of the problems that bring is that many people simply do not take you seriously. "Happily", if you have the money you can get your height increased -by breaking open the bones in your legs and insert metal rods there. Just imagine.

Another example in the program was the black woman who got an operation to get smaller breasts and the asian woman who got them enlarged. Because we must all be a cup C to be pretty and desirable, right?

The narrowness of what is considered beautiful, and indeed normal, is what provokes me the most here. It of course also applies to Caucasian individuals who for some reason differs from the norm in some way. But it concerns a lot more people belonging to an ethnic minority because hardly any of them fit the norm and they would have to go through surgery to do so.

What I wish for is more appreciation of diversity of appearance in our culture as a whole. Looking different does not mean that there is something wrong with you!

PS. Skin bleaching isn't necessarily related to a wish to look more Caucasian, in some cultures it is considered beautiful because it is associated with being rich. Rich people don't have to toil in the fields outside and hence they don't get tan and their skin is paler than the skin of the lower classes. We had the same ideal in Europe not so long ago. Same mechanisms that makes white people want a tan, as Immi pointed out.

I just wrote an awesome reply, but it got eaten :(

I can't really understand how someone can feel enough pressure to believe that they have to go to the extreme lengths of surgery. I'm not the "norm" when it comes to ethnicity, but it doesn't mean I want to have my nose broken in several places to look average.

I think we try to quantify beauty too much. Like it's all about having the right skin tone, or the right size arse. Can't we just accept that you can be beautiful simply for being intelligent and interesting and unique, not merely because you look good in a photograph?

Also, since we're on the subject, the Victorians didn't worry about fat or thin, they worried about hand size. Seriously. Big hands were meant to be the sign of a labourer, so you wanted to have dainty digits. Even with modern surgery, I don't think anyone can do anything about hand size. Crazy, right?

Hmm I think it's sad people feel that way.
I think mixed race skin is beautiful and black and asian and so on.
However I feel that maybe I'm sometimes like that.
Although I'm white I have olive skin tone and do wish I was paler.
I just feel chavvy which sounds dead dumb but yeah ...
I'm sorry this is a stupid reply.
But because I'm white I'd rather be pale as I think it's more beautiful ... I'm not saying mixed race or black isn't. But I am neither so I just look kinda yellowy ill colour and I cant find the right colour foundation as I don't want to look orange.

right i would just like to say im tall (5'7) chubby (size 18 english) so pale im almost blue, ive got big tits an no arse, i wear glasses an have really uncontrolable hair, have a big nose and pointy chin an ive never felt better about who i am, i really feel for people who think they should 'fit in' its like a 24 hour job!

right i would just like to say im tall (5'7) chubby (size 18 english) so pale im almost blue, ive got big tits an no arse, i wear glasses an have really uncontrolable hair, have a big nose and pointy chin an ive never felt better about who i am

Have to say, you sound pretty hot

I've come to love my curves. Although, I wouldn't mind losing a bit of my weight for health reasons.

^ aw thanks :)